Enter your idea

Pls do ti

... imagine if every business around the world that uses Xero was unable to deliver services or pay staff on the last day of the month because Xero had a critical failure AND had not permitted them to maintain offline copies of their files.... Oh, wait

Another classic example, why xero needs to provide a better system to allow for local backups, all xero seem to do is cost business money due to down time............. please PLEASE PLEASE get your act together xero...........
******oh you are still unable to provide a human to contact ********

This week, regulators have called organisations to account for having been unable to maintain services due to the Crowdstrike-caused system failurs. Imagine if that was every business that uses Xero...
Xero, customer-maintained backup files should be just as important to your own risk management strategy as it is to ours.

Why can't I even vote for this idea? This is a crucial function that is needed urgently. The recent cyber outage has really shown the urgency of being able to have complete local backups of ALL our data.

Come on Xero, you keep increasing your prices drastically but you are so arrogant to state that you are not even considering to deliver the most crucial function for your customers to stay compliant???

After the events of last week, this must be a wake up call for all businesses to strengthen their BCPs and Xero to finally provide better solutions to back-up key data and files and not point to 3rd party apps! We can't possibly execute individual exports one by one each day or even each week. The legal implications to business owners are huge and perhaps time to move on, however painful this might be. We need back-ups and offline access, albeit with limits. At the very minimum give us a better API to develop our own solutions.

Upvoting on this feature is disabled, I am sure it would have been in the thousands.

Hello @Tom Diehl,

Thank you for the clarification.

It's important to note that it's NOT possible to restore your org data back into Xero. Anyone making this claim either doesn't understand the true definition of 'Restore' or isn't aware that it's not possible to restore the Journal (and some other key data) back into a new org in Xero. We backup Xero data.

Using the data that we backup, we understand that it's possible to reconstitute a set of accounts. We can provide a document that offers a high-level overview of the process and what's required to achieve this.

We highly recommend that every Business Continuity Plan (BCP) includes these steps documented in detail, and the business tests the process to verify with a level of confidence. Any extra steps required outside of the data that we backup should also be noted and exercised.

Rebuilding a full set of accounts from raw data isn't a trivial process, but it's possible. With the right skills and time, exceptional results can be achieved - you'll be the judge of that from your testing.

Using backapp (our free Windows app), you'll be able to see all your data that we backup with ease and continue operating your business with visibility of your Xero data in a user-friendly interface.

The main point here is having a backup is of more value than no backup at all ;-) How will you chase your Receivables should something go wrong? Can you still issue invoices while you recover your data? What is your Recovery Time Objective (RTO)? Come and visit our service in the Xero App Store and see how we can help answer these.

Disclaimer: Please note that while we strive to provide accurate information and support, Control C Limited cannot be held responsible for any inaccuracies or misinterpretations of the data restoration process. It's advisable for customers to seek professional advice from an accountant or financial expert to ensure compliance and accuracy of your accounting practices in the event of data recovery using your backed up data.

We're happy to field any questions that anyone may have.

Campbell Green

Founder, Control-C Ltd

@Campell Green Sorry, it was meant for Kelly @ Xero.

Unless something new has come along that I am not aware of there is no way to do a complete backup and restore of a Xero tenant either natively or with any existing 3rd party tools. I am happy to be corrected if this is not true.

Being able to backup and restore my data is important enough to me that I am currently looking to move to another program. Apparently, Xero management does not care if this costs them customers. Unless they start to lose a significant number of customers, I doubt they will ever address this problem.

@Tom Diehl I am not sure if your message below is aimed at me or Kelly @ Xero?

Hello @Billy Boys,

Thank you for your post and the questions.

Yes, we offer offline browsing of your Xero data in a Read-Only mode i.e. you can't make any changes to it, not that you would want to, but you can add notes against the transactions. We offer a Windows product called backapp that was purposely built for exactly this scenario, that you might want to browse your data in an off-line mode i.e. not internet connection.

We also offer automated daily backups and an optional one-off backup (snapshot of your accounts as of the day the backup completes). We do not offer a 'weekly' or 'monthly' automated backup option.

You are welcome to trial our product using our 7-day free trial, no card required (it only does the first 50 records of each data area). If you would like to trial the full backup option, you can fully subscribe and if you do not like it, we offer a full refund in the first 30 days.

Please feel free to email me directly at campbell@control-c.com

Happy to answer all your questions and help you get started.

Kind regards

Campbell Green
Founder Director
control-c.com

Hi Campbell,

I do my wife's books - a small consultancy.

Once a year or so, when we go away, unfortunately we won't have internet access, but it would be good to set up a budget for the upcoming FY and beyond.

It would be nice (and sensible) if I could run a static copy off before we leave, and be able to interrogate that while we are away and plan, while 'away' from the business.

Can your product do that?

Also, it would be peace of mind to just take a back up of all files, say once a week, at the click of a button, so that if something went wrong with XERO, one could at least have 'a starting off point' while XERO was repaired. ie an offline full copy.

Can your product do that for me?

Apologies but I am neither a techie nor a power user of XERO but roughly know my way around a set of accounts.

Regards.

BB

<Rant ON> You obviously do not understand the question OR you choose to ignore the real question!!
Unless things have changed recently it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a FULL backup of ALL data in Xero because of limitations in the Xero API's. This appears to be a design limitation on the part of Xero!!

In the past I did extensive research into being able to create a FULL backup of ALL of my data and be able to test that backup by restoring the data back into Xero. I failed on all fronts. One vendor in AU (I forget the name) even said that it was not possible due to the limitations imposed by Xero's APIs.

I would LOVE to be proven wrong but so far the only response we get from Xero is, we do care what you want we are not going to give it to you. We want you locked into Xero forever with no easy way out. That what I get from the responses from Xero. Basically, they are giving ALL of the users the middle finger. </Rant OFF>

Now to be clear the reason I want this is because your TOS clearly says if for some reason Xero loses/corrupts my data it is my responsibility to back up said data. How am I supposed to do that when the APIs do not allow for a complete and total export of my data?

The article you reference above explains how to get SOME data out by hand. That is not a viable way to perform backups and again it is not ALL of my data.
We need a procedure or service that can actually be automated to pull ALL data from Xero. Quite frankly if I knew about this when I signed up for Xero I never would have signed up.

Is Xero management that arrogant to actually think it is impossible for their systems go get compromised? Do they really think they are better than everyone else in the world? Cloud accounts are hacked every day mostly due to user error but none the less it happens. I am sure Microsoft has much larger security budgets than Xero yet we still read about Microsoft getting breached. To their credit, they actually disclose their breaches. Can Xero say the same?

I suspect if Xero were to be breached, we would never know unless a third party made the breach public.

Given Xero's track record of NEVER fixing confirmed bugs and other long standing problems how am I supposed to be confident that Xero is actually doing the right thing. Just because you say Xero is doing the right thing does not make it so.

In short, we need a way to backup ALL of our own data so we can actually take responsibility for our data should there be a breach, hardware failure or other yet to be named disaster that no one including Xero thought of.

@darren clark

https://central.xero.com/s/article/Managing-your-own-personal-data-in-Xero

Retaining your organisation’s data

Xero retains an organisation’s data for as long as we have a relationship with the subscriber. Once that relationship ends, we’ll continue to retain that data for a period of 7 years and then it’ll be deleted.

You can reactivate for recovering your data at the 7yrs is my understanding?

Keeping Your Financial History Safe. Why There's No "Undo" Button!

Have you ever wished for a simple "undo" button when dealing with your financial data? While the idea of instantly reversing a mistake might sound appealing, there's a crucial reason why Xero, and most accounting software, don't offer such a function.

We have written a document that explains why safeguarding the integrity of your financial history takes priority over a quick "rewind." We'll explore the risks of altering the Journal and why restoring data to Xero has challenges, and provide you with alternative strategies for correcting errors and maintaining accurate records.

Disclaimer: This document is intended for informational purposes only and should not be construed as accounting advice. For specific accounting guidance, please consult with a qualified professional. We aim to provide a clear explanation for those curious about the intricacies of Xero data backups, restores and the Journal, and why a seemingly simple "undo" function isn't implemented.

If you would like to receive a copy and learn more, please contact me at Control-C.com

Hi @James Slattery-Kavanagh.

I was drawn to your following comment

"Backups are chiefly about peace of mind but I can only see two backup apps in the Xero App Store and both had weak reviews. They aren’t viable."

I am not sure what reviews you are reading but our reviews at Control-C are all 5 Star? https://apps.xero.com/nz/search/app/controlc/reviews?page=1

I am also curious why you say that they are not 'viable' solutions? Would you care to elaborate please, for the benefit of myself and others here in the community.

Thanks.

Backups are chiefly about peace of mind but I can only see two backup apps in the Xero App Store and both had weak reviews. They aren’t viable.

We all know that even with the best of intentions it isn’t possible for Xero to guarantee to keep our data secure - hence the disclaimer in their terms

However I feel it is expected as part of our subscription fee that a backup/export capability is provided, is robust and works for mutual benefit.

Otherwise, should that unfortunate day arise where everything gets wiped, what is the likelihood of me starting from scratch with the same provider?

Darren has outlined a situational case which already has precedence with authorities. We were involved with a digital subscription based accounting firm who was required to provide access to our records years after we wound up our paid subscription. They were forced to open up many areas of all years they thought they could lock us out of. Xero would be no different.

Time to get this sorted Xero. A legal requirement for tax puposes to store data for retention of at least 7 years. These must be provided to IRD in a format specified on there own webste.
https://www.ird.govt.nz/managing-my-tax/record-keeping/computer-record-keeping-for-audit

If a customer chooses to finish using Xero, maybe the business has closed or some other reason, they are required to hold these records. Xero currently has no suitable means to provide this to their customers. As a paid subscription for a service and an NZ born company, this would be a no-brainer to ensure compliance with NZ law (albeit ATO as well). For a 'poster child' of NZ online services, Xero has some fundamental flaws that should have been addressed long before now.

As I said, time to get this sorted Xero!

Hi @Nigel Soakell
Thanks for your comments.

I unreservedly apolgise to anyone here, that may have read this thread, for not disclosing earlier in the thread that I am the founder of Control-C, an App Store partner, that provides a data backup solution for Xero.

Moving forward, as I do wish to contribute to this thread and not be seen as promoting Control-C wares, (don't forget I am a Xero user myself) could I point out that I think Kelly has made it quite clear here that there will be no change i.e. status quo will stand...

"... this isn't something we're looking to develop for individual use ourselves. If of importance to your business, we do have some official app partners who can fulfil this need and you can explore these through our Xero App Store."

May I respectfully suggest a change of tack to how you are all approaching this request.

The way forward for this group getting what they want, albeit through a paid App, would be to press Xero to open up the Accounting API and add access for App partners like us, to be able to write a new org's Journal from a backed up copy. We could get a step closer to providing a FULL restoration of an org. which I am sure is what you are requesting at the end of the day. Forget rolling back transactions, simply restore the dataset from the day the wheels fell off the wagon.

I worked at Xero, but I can't speak for them, but how many of you all suffer with the unique name constraint for your Contacts i.e. you can't have two David Smiths right (at least not up until I last checked), and I worked on that team. That is a big piece of work. Where I am going with this is, imagine the work required in providing backups to the granular level of what the end user expects. That is a tall ask.

I know you all reluctantly and understandably don't want to have to pay for this service, but you all seem to love Xero and want to stay, otherwise you would have left right? But wouldn't you rather have something, rather than nothing at all?

It might be an easier path for Xero to open the API Journal endpoint to write back your original data vs providing the solution themselves.

Just some food for thought and how you might actually get some traction sooner, as this old drum goes way back to pre-2012 (when I raised it with Rod Drury) and I don't see you making any progress?

Current Xero user, ex-Xero employee and Founder of Control-C

@Campbell Green
Thanks for the explanation and background and indeed Control-C may be the best option out there for Xero Users.

To be honest I did not go researching your name until Roger asked you specifically if you worked for Control-C, up until that point I had just assumed you were a fellow Xero user with no association to Control-C other than perhaps using the product yourself. I typically don't go researching people's details who post in this forum. And I don't believe anyone should really be expected to, as there is a certain amount of trust when engaging in these forums. I know on other platforms, there are requirements for disclosure or even removals of posts where they are seen to be promoting/recommending a product.

In terms of to disclose/not disclose, I think the rules are pretty clear, if you, someone close to you or your company will benefit in any way from recommending any product from some association with that product then you need to disclose this, as there is an obvious bias which is unknown to the reader. This is really no different than the FTC rules for social media influences.

Please don't get wrong I'm not say that Control-C is not the best product here, that's for people to take up your trial offer and determine for themselves. And I'm not saying you shouldn't be saying how the product works and how good it is, and I'd be concerned buying something from any company who did not believe in its own products. I'm just saying in my opinion you should have disclosed this from the outset.

Finally, I think this is now starting to diverge from the true purpose of this thread, which is do Xero Users want Xero to provide backup/restore as standard part of Xero. So, I'll just leave things as they are regrading disclosure and won't comment any further on the subject.